Kalwasser and PH

Carlos

Member
Club Member in Good Standing
Jun 25, 2021
9
8
Goodyear
AZFRAG!! I saw this video Sunday and I am intrigued by the concept. I know Kalk is a known tool to raise Alk, but to just use it for PH?! Any of you Gals or Guys are doing this or have tried it? Please let me know about your experiences with Kalk dosing.
 
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Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
Sup Carlos, have you done anything with kalk yet?
I watched this and one other similar to this on reef bum, I forget who- they were mentioning chasing ph and not alk. About the unavailable alk and other stuff that sits in our tanks that once you kit high ph is available and balances out.

I’m fighting my ph now on my new 30g got it upto 8 with only outside air. photo period brings it up by .1
I want to start a setup like he’s suggesting in the garage to try and bring ph to 8.3 with no swing with a steady drip, maybe more in pm to reduce swing?
I think we’re fortunate here in the valley that we have high evap rates and can dose so much.
I like the styrofoam float idea to reduce water surface area, I purchased a 5000ml beaker in hopes the skinny neck would help this for my stirrer.

I figure if alk starts to spike you just need to loadup on sps! What a terrible problem 😫

I’m going on auto WC on a 30 so I’m not too concerned personally, I’m just dialing in the water change % to compensate for any spikes, but I don’t know if this is a good way to do this, it’s kinda wonky dosing kalk Instead of ato but still doing auto WC. I’ll let you know & post my apex readings in a week or so, I have a second ph probe soaking now to measure kalk at garage temps

I’ve always wondered does anyone inject or saturate O2 to reduce carbon? Does this science work? (I ran a second airline to outside w a pump to see if I can have the apex turn it on w low ph to reduce the swing, but doesn’t effect anything. sad.) have I just relieved all the co2 already w the skimmer air?
-B
 
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Carlos

Member
Club Member in Good Standing
Thread starter
Jun 25, 2021
9
8
Goodyear
Sup Carlos, have you done anything with kalk yet?
I watched this and one other similar to this on reef bum, I forget who- they were mentioning chasing ph and not alk. About the unavailable alk and other stuff that sits in our tanks that once you kit high ph is available and balances out.

I’m fighting my ph now on my new 30g got it upto 8 with only outside air. photo period brings it up by .1
I want to start a setup like he’s suggesting in the garage to try and bring ph to 8.3 with no swing with a steady drip, maybe more in pm to reduce swing?
I think we’re fortunate here in the valley that we have high evap rates and can dose so much.
I like the styrofoam float idea to reduce water surface area, I purchased a 5000ml beaker in hopes the skinny neck would help this for my stirrer.

I figure if alk starts to spike you just need to loadup on sps! What a terrible problem 😫

I’m going on auto WC on a 30 so I’m not too concerned personally, I’m just dialing in the water change % to compensate for any spikes, but I don’t know if this is a good way to do this, it’s kinda wonky dosing kalk Instead of ato but still doing auto WC. I’ll let you know & post my apex readings in a week or so, I have a second ph probe soaking now to measure kalk at garage temps

I’ve always wondered does anyone inject or saturate O2 to reduce carbon? Does this science work? (I ran a second airline to outside w a pump to see if I can have the apex turn it on w low ph to reduce the swing, but doesn’t effect anything. sad.) have I just relieved all the co2 already w the skimmer air?
-B
No I have not tried it, at the moment I am trying to secure the equipment necessary to accomplish what Mr. Mackley is talking about. The thing that he said that intrigued me about his method was that he does not worry about ALK level and just focuses on PH. That is why it is essential to use an apex.
I’ll experiment on my frag tank after I secure the DOS dosing pump and a sealed container for the Kalkwasser clear liquid.
I’ll be attending this upcoming club meeting and if you are too we can talk about it some more. Take care and hopefully I’ll see you there.
 
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Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
Unfortunately, well fortunately, I’ll be in Tahoe for my birthday. Ill be at others- I’ll at least post my findings
They talk about chasing ph all throughout this video on brs too
 
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Ef4life

Well-known member
Club Member in Good Standing
Jun 27, 2021
73
109
Phoenix
on my 10g I’ve been using a kamoer x1 as an ato to dose a fixed amount daily. I figured out my evaporation rate by topping off manually and recording the amount for 2 weeks, took the average amount in ml and cut it back about 10% so I might have to do a small manual top off occasionally. I don’t have any way to monitor the ph as it’s a low budget setup, so currently I’m just mixing up my kalk not fully saturated as I don’t need too much as it’s still just a few frags and I’m not wanting to overdo it either.

I like the idea of just dosing at night, but again since I have no way to moniter the ph swing I'm hesitant to try it as I don’t want it to dose too much at one time, so I do the max 12 individual doses spaced evenly over the 24hr period.

If I get some type of ph monitor eventually I’d like to try and emulate what Chris is doing, but I’d most likely be doing it without an apex. I figure with a doser like the x1 pro, or the hydros controlled version with the ability to make 24 individual dose schedules you could taper the dose from 0 during the full intensity daylight hours, then increase the dose as the lights ramp down.
 
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Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
on my 10g I’ve been using a kamoer x1 as an ato to dose a fixed amount daily. I figured out my evaporation rate by topping off manually and recording the amount for 2 weeks, took the average amount in ml and cut it back about 10% so I might have to do a small manual top off occasionally. I don’t have any way to monitor the ph as it’s a low budget setup, so currently I’m just mixing up my kalk not fully saturated as I don’t need too much as it’s still just a few frags and I’m not wanting to overdo it either.

I like the idea of just dosing at night, but again since I have no way to moniter the ph swing I'm hesitant to try it as I don’t want it to dose too much at one time, so I do the max 12 individual doses spaced evenly over the 24hr period.

If I get some type of ph monitor eventually I’d like to try and emulate what Chris is doing, but I’d most likely be doing it without an apex. I figure with a doser like the x1 pro, or the hydros controlled version with the ability to make 24 individual dose schedules you could taper the dose from 0 during the full intensity daylight hours, then increase the dose as the lights ramp down.
I just got 3 kamoer x1 pros for the bday 🙌. Tahoe’s pretty rad fellas. Highly recommend.
noticed since I’ve been out of town my ph has risen .1 or .2.
fking co2, thought I was gassing off all with outside air, looks like i have a bit more to scrub.
im going to switch on my secondary outside air pump that runs into the sump when we get home and see if there’s any improvement.
let me say having the apex and the iPad with me on vacay to monitor everything is clutch!
soon I should be able to have dosers monitor the ph to keep consistent- just want to maintain best baseline without dosing first
 
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Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
Alright, home and ready to build out a kalk station.

Advice: have large res topped off with RO/kalk in garage, with doser pulling from, through wall, into sump
(Kalk)->(doser)->(sump)

Or- pushing fresh RO from ATO res in garage into kalk barrel w doser, displacing saturated kalk water into sump through wall by gravity.
(RO)->(doser)->(kalk)->(sump)

Advice thx

Also anyone watching Ryan’s livestream at reefapalooza about nasa?
 

Ef4life

Well-known member
Club Member in Good Standing
Jun 27, 2021
73
109
Phoenix
Alright, home and ready to build out a kalk station.

Advice: have large res topped off with RO/kalk in garage, with doser pulling from, through wall, into sump
(Kalk)->(doser)->(sump)

Or- pushing fresh RO from ATO res in garage into kalk barrel w doser, displacing saturated kalk water into sump through wall by gravity.
(RO)->(doser)->(kalk)->(sump)

Advice thx

Also anyone watching Ryan’s livestream at reefapalooza about nasa?
I’d mix the kalk to your desired potency then dose it. Pushing the ro into the barrel could cause fluctuations in the saturation of kalk, theoretically it should be fine if constantly slowly stirred.
 
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ajtomase

Your lovable LPS collector
Club Member in Good Standing
Jun 27, 2021
50
52
Chandler, AZ
My pH naturally sits around 7.8 without any dosing and I've thought about doing Kalkwasser drip into my ATO, but I've heard there's so many things that could go wrong with it (even with having an Apex system)...
 

kjonulak

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2021
47
13
Scottsdale
I have been dosing kalk for quite sometime now. I saw a previous video this guy did with Reef Dude a few months back. Pretty much the same info. My total water amount in my 2 system setup is around 650 gallons. I was dosing kalk using an Avast K2 kalk stirrer. I decided to try using a brute container, but I don't have a space large enough for a 30-50 gallon container. So I was using a 10 gallon brute. I get around 3.5-4 gallons of evap per day. So I was refilling the 10 gallon every other day. It was starting to get to be a pita. I decided to do a modified setup which I will explain. Before I do that, having a pH probe output you trust is key. I have a GHL setup and I had 2 pH probes on the system. I couldn't get the 2 of them to match. Frustrating. I picked up a Bluetooth Hanna handheld pH probe. Nice unit. It has 4 points of calibration 4/7/10/14. I'm only using 3 points, 4/7/10. The Hanna would give me a number between my 2 GHL pH readings. So which do you trust. I made a test solution (RHF) recipe and the Hanna was the winner. It also showed that my pH was lower than what I thought. Not to go into a lot of detail, but I decided the last time I was calibrating the Hanna I used the same solutions the 7/10 to calibrate the GHL probes. Why it worked is a mystery, but now my GHL probes and the Hanna are almost spot on with each other. So now back to my modified method. So I am using my Avast kalk stirrer to fill my 10 gallon brute can and then the brute can overflows into my sump. My thought process behind this was that if the kalk stirrer doesn't provide a consistent output, having a 10 gallon buffer would at least keep a more consistent level. Maybe, maybe not. I thought my tank pH was getting to 8.27 at night and 8.4 during the day, but with the new calibrations I'm at 8.09 at night at 8.16 during the day. I am dosing only at night. I did have an initial ALK spike when I first started a few months back. I did get to 10.6. Some corals weren't happy. Now with everything calibrated correctly, I'm hoping to see a daily rise with night lows and daily highs. Any questions? Ask away.
 
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Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
You’re still dosing 100% saturated @ 12.4? Not a bad thought about a larger vessel being fed by stirrer, only issue I wonder is extra exposure to co2? I’m going to be unable to have the large 30g in the garage it looks like, the heat I don’t think will allow for full saturation at 12.4 at 90f
 

kjonulak

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2021
47
13
Scottsdale
My 10 gallon brute has a lid. The hose from the stirrer goes through a uniseal fitting in the lid. So there really isn't any air exchange over the kalk solution. I've never looked into kalk saturation based on temp so I can't respond to that.

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42BAF047-3842-487C-A3A8-30B8569B0FBF.jpeg

2B08AEDD-8C3F-4D2A-931C-46FF4FB91335.jpeg
 

Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
I like that setup. I know 12.4 is fully saturated at room temp. 77ish. Ca(OH)2 is soluble to cooler temps then hotter, strange. I think I can get around the hot temps in the garage by adding vin to the kalk
Have you added vinegar to your solution ever? Do you dose carbon anyways?

So much testing right now to figure out kalk. It’s a PITA.
 

kjonulak

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2021
47
13
Scottsdale
I've never added vinegar to my kalk. My tanks never liked vinegar or vodka carbon dosing. So I wasn't going to add any to my kalk.

I use a sulfur denitrator for NO3 control and lanthanum chloride for PO4 control. I can dial my NO3 to any number with the denitrator. I keep it at 12.5ppm. The LC is the same. I keep my PO4 at around 0.1ppm. I did notice that my PO4 did drop to zero after setting up the hybrid kalk/brute combo. So I stopped the LC drip and added some KH2PO4 to get back to the 0.1ppm range. I'm measuring the PO4 daily and adding the phosphate accordingly. My pH is very stable from day to day. Not sure why the PO4 dropped like that. I'm still seeing a 0.01 PO4 drop per day.
 

kjonulak

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2021
47
13
Scottsdale
When dosing from a premixed brute can my pH was staying level, but my ALK was dropping slowly. After setting up the hybrid combo, my pH is still staying steady, but my ALK is now slowly climbing. Just an observation.
 

Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
When dosing from a premixed brute can my pH was staying level, but my ALK was dropping slowly. After setting up the hybrid combo, my pH is still staying steady, but my ALK is now slowly climbing. Just an observation.
Interesting. Has the relation between alk and cal changed at all? Are they staying balanced?
 

Phxreefer

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2022
51
22
Mesa
I’m considering scrapping the 30g in the garage because the temps right now, until I have a more clear idea of kalk saturation and temps work. Calibrated a second ph probe for a low 7 calibrated at 10 and high of 10 calibrated to fully saturated kalk. Should give me a good idea of saturation I believe. Working on a stand for kalk stirrer

Can you give me advice on kalk & ato. I was thinking of dosing kalk pm, so having the ato off except for a few minutes each am to make up for what’s not dosed w kalk. So the pm kalk dose makes up for the daily evap. That sound about right?

Or setting ph limits and having apex dose auto?

Thx B
 

kjonulak

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2021
47
13
Scottsdale
First you need to know your daily evap rate. I determined mine by using a graduated 5 gallon bucket. I put RO/DI water in it and let my ATO dose normally. I did it over a 7 day period to get my average.

Mine is automatic. I don't mess with my ATO. I don't turn it off at any point.

I have a GHL p4 controller. This was my parameters:
Dose kalk between 8pm and 8am.
I dose kalk 3x/hour.
I divided my daily evap by 12 then by 3 to get the amount to dose. For example I get 3.5 gallons per day of evap. So 3.5x3785=13,247ml. 13,247/12 then divided by 3 = 368ml/dose.
Now I only dose if my pH is below my target set. Right now I go from 8.09 morning to 8.14 night. I set my pH level to be just above the 8.14 at 8.16. So at 8pm I start dosing. As my pH hopefully climbs over time I will keep increasing the 8.16 number higher to reach the magical ph number of 8.3.

Does that make sense?